March against Bully
The Peaceoholics (yes, that's their real name, and no, Ringo is not an affiliate) recently set up shop outside of Rockstar's New York offices to protest the forthcoming game, Bully. Despite little information existing about the game, the Peaceoholics, being a youth-based group, caught wind of the game's in-school setting and quickly set out to put an end to the title. Some of the group's messages included:
-
"Put the cuffs on Rockstar, not youth"
-
"Prosecute Rockstar Games; they are felons"
-
"Hey hey, ho ho, Rockstar Games has got to go"
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Rence @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
They're free to buy pokemon games aren't they?? Why are they bothering the rest of us with their annoying politics.. bah, hippies.
Wonderflex @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Not to be a kill-joy, and definately not one to want to see Rockstar go away, I still think there is something to be said for the protesters of this game. There are certain area's that quite possibly shouldn't be touched in the video game world. I know that GTA games have been a large influence in video game lives of many middle-high school students, and I can only imagine this would be too.
Although I've never heard of GTA inspiring some kid to get out a flame thrower and see how many deaths he can rack up in 60 seconds, doesn't mean that they haven't put a toll on the moral status of the child. With the ever increasing amounts of school based violence I don't think we really NEED a game that furthermore shows it.
That's not saying that I belive the games are a direct cause of school related violiences, but it still doesn't mean that we should put games in place that allow a child to live out a life of a student who is a little more off kilter than the norm. To me it is similar to making a game where you play through the life of one of the 9-11 terrorists. It's just an area maybe we shouldn't forgo.
Steve @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
If I'm old enough to die for my country, then I should be old enough to play violent video games.
32_Footsteps @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Yes, let's arrest Rockstar for doing something perfectly legal. Seriously, if so many people have an issue with Rockstar, they should do what I do - not buy any of their games.
Danny @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Bah, hippies. The 60s are over, you lost.
Anywho, here is a list of demands the group wants. I got them off kotaku:
Peaceoholics List of Demands for Rock Star Games
# Not to release Bully under any circumstances
# Volunteer to sell its violent and sexually explicit games in adult video stores only.
# Let parents return Grand Theft Auto for a full refund until they do a national awareness campaign to educate parents of content and possible effects.
# Create a fund for victims of unauthorized use of a motor vehicle and car-jackings, etc.
# Make a national apology for misleading and lying to children, parents, and legislators about their intentions and causing insurance premiums to sky rocket.
# Give a written response within five business days of receipt of these demands.
Twist @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Could Rockstar hope for any better marketing than this? Bully will probably be no better than State Of Emergency (couldn't be much worse IMHO) but thanks to all this crap it is probably going to sell like GTA: SA did.
boxmyth @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Hey, anyone see the other story about China banning violent games from minors? Why don't we do what Peaceholics recommend and join the Communist Chinese in making sure games don't corrupt the children parents have no time to raise! Gotta love those commies, right Peaceholics! I guess the Cold War was fought for nothing, as the commies were right all along!
Have you hugged your comrade today?
Dom @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
#2: "I know that GTA games have been a large influence in video game lives of many middle-high school students, and I can only imagine this would be too. "
The game is about getting back at the bullies by pulling pranks. Is Anti-Bullyism such a bad message to promote? Of course, we don't know if they're going to get revenge with water balloons or guns. If the former, then game on. If the latter, then maybe you'd have a point, but I'd still argue it.
illusion @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
bloomin' christians :P
OtakuCODE @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Videogames do not influence the behavior of children negatively. Ever. They teach them to press buttons and that is all. They can tell the difference between a game and reality, why can't you?
They'd better release Bully, because I want to play it. GTA wasn't my style but Bully looks cool.
Fuck the bozos.
Nolan D. @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
I think the "Peaceaholics" by them selves will never take down Rockstar. I think parents should be more aware of games they buy for their kids, not to be stupid, buy the game and then say oh this is a bad game... Anyone agree with me? How is Rockstar lying to people? I can't wait for Bully to come out! People should learn what M means.
Tom @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
illusion, i don't see how religious faith has any part in this, care to enlighten me?
Andrew @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Videogames are a great way for teens to express their anger at the world.
About as emo as that sounds, it's true, if I'm angry, I go play CS to let off some steam.
Violent videogames inspire violence just as much as violent movies do, which ironically are watched by far more minors and aren't treated as seriously (From my experience).
For example War of the Worlds was only rated 14-A (In Canada), there were scenes in that movie where the aliens massacred the human populace and spread their entrails across the landscape.
My point is, they don't inspire violence. Violent kids just play violent videogames for different reasons than normal kids.
I think that most of this stuff is appropriate for teens. I don't know about kids 13 and under.. let the parents decide, that's my opinion on the matter.
Scott @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
This Peacholics group is their own self-parody.
PvpMan22 @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Those bastards.
ill trooper @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
After reading all the comments ovet the last year here, I wonder how many of you have ever been around a kid after he gets juiced up watching some violent or action-oriented movie or game - it really does affect them. You need to explain that someone can get hurt, this is reality, that is a game, etc.
I'm not saying 'stop making violent games,' just putting it out there that it's naive to think a kid can always know what's acceptable or not when onscreen you're showing them beatings or agression. It can make a 'normal kid' into a 'violent kid' for a moment.
I mean honestly, some of the posters on this site get fucking aggro for no real reason - perhaps they snap a bit too quickly, lose their manners because they subconciously find a solution similar to the way you would handle a task in GTA? I attribute it more to people hiding behind the wall of annonymity the internet allows, but still, subtle things around us shape our pesonalities and sitting at home for weeks playing GTA is gonna do something - I hope it's something positive like 'stimulate dynamic problem solving in the right side of the brain,' but who knows.
Very complex issue.
Karmakin @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
What's that they say about stones and glass houses?
The culture of relative truth and the REAL "if it feels good do it" culture (Don't think hippie. Think yuppie, I.E. Soccer Mom), are behind most of the problems.
These people are liars. Plain and simple. It took me two minutes to realize that in "Bully", you do NOT play the Bully. You play a character who is bullied, and your goal is to rise up the social structure of your school. You play the average joe who overcomes the bully.
And where exactly is the problem with this?
These people are liars. They're trying to make you focus on THIS "immorality", while their greed, ego and selfishness runs rampant and destroys a nation.
Don't let them.
BTW. The irony of the situation is that it's the culture that's the problem that makes bullying a problem in the first place. The "up or out" culture where you either win or lose, and everything comes down to that is what kills any sort of cooperative atmosphere anyway. All I'll say is thank god for video games, especially on-line games that are starting to teach kids how to work together towards a common goal.
The kids really are all right...no thanks to these people.
racco @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
i wonder what computer games genghis khan played?!?
Sintax @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
"... being a youth-based group..."
Damn, another reason that school should be year round. Don't these kids have better things to do with their summer off? I don't know, like say play some GTA: SA?
Rockstar @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
# Give a written response within five business days of receipt of these demands.
We dont need five days to tell you to take your demands, twist them side ways and cram them up your ass!
Wonderflex @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Your comments: #8 - I can agree, if it's just pranks using water baloon's, and
other things of the sort, then I also don't see a problem with it. But if it's
about beating the crap out of somebody with stapler while Ms. Flanger is off in
the faculty room making copies of your detention report, then I'm definitely not
gun-ho for the game.
#7 - Communist China = Bad. Communism as a whole = depends on the branch of
thought, and also the way it is run in the country. I'm a registered Communist
with the Communist Party of the United States of America (CPUSA) and there logic
of thinking isn't anything like the brutal dictatorship we see in other
countries.
Also I don't think we can tie up the decision that China made with the
Peaceaholics. Granted they are making some very stupid demands, but just
because they also happen to think along the lines of China on this subject
doesn't make them evil commies. I think there is something to be said for the
move that China made in respects to this. There should be a way out of it
though, my forcing legal guardians to purchase the product for the child and
signing a waiver that they understand the games contents. I say if an informed
parents is okay with a child playing a game then the Man, and nobody else,
should have a say in it.
#9 - I'm a Christian, and you can't blame the actions of a few people on "bloomin' Christians." Not all Christians are the same. Sure we all try to promote one thing, and yes at times we all mess up and go against that ourselves, but that doesn't mean we should be all bulked together and accused every time somebody tries to be a moral finger-pointer. Many of moral rights activists aren't Christians because of new age movements to try and blend ideas of higher morality with other forms of religion. They could as easily be new age pacifist for all that it matters. So try to be more respectful before you simply clamor on with your own form of persecution.
ryan @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
it's a PR stunt!
Ben @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
What I would like to see is a $10,000 fine for any store caught selling MA or AO games to underaged kids. I would also like parents that buy these games for their kids to have to sign a waiver saying that they understand what they are buying and that they won't sue or complain since they have been made fully aware of the situation.
I have children and while I don't think tha videogames are a direct influence on kid's behavior, I am not so sure that it doesn't indirectly influence them. I would hate to find out at a later date that videogames helped to desensitive kids to violence in a lot of the same ways that early television helped to villify native americans and create other stererotypes about other minorities.
While I don't agree with banning games, those of you who think that the solution is so easy as to simply blame the parents need to also remember that for every parent who does monitor what their kids are doing, their is another parent who simply doesn't care. When kids get a certain age and start hanging out at friends huses, it becomes even more difficult to track what they are doing, watching or getting into.
This is of course not Rockstar's problem except to work with stores to insure that these games are kept out of the wrong hands. Parents need to be even more careful in asking theirs kids questions and keeping up with whats going on in their lives.
As for Bully being about picked on kids playing pranks on the bullies, I find this hard to believe or at least very inrealistic. In most cases, if a nerd played a prank on a bully, it would just intensify the arse beating received the next day. Unfortunately, most of the time the ones that are picked on choose to enact their revenge in more violent ways. I hope that is not what the game portrays. I can deal with (and actually enjoy) playing the part of a criminal type doing things that I might see in a movie but when you start making these same types of events happen in a school um, I'll pass.
Also don't group all Christians together. Their are extremists in every group. I enjoy GTA and the Bible in equal parts.
brett @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
The ESRB just ought to go and remove the AO rating, make M 18+ and end all this silly nonsense. Then no one could complain the M games are destroying children, since children aren't allowed to play them, and if they do it's because parents found them suitable beforehand. If all M games became 18+ then retailers would be forced to sell them or lose out on a large portion of profits. Personally I think this is the old solution to shut these people up.
If you don't like a video game, don't let your child play it. If you don't like violent movies or pornography, don't let your child watch it. Same exact thing.
jc @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
The last game I bought from Rockstar was ViceCity (that game was too easy, but somewhat fun).
I started losing interest with R* when State of Emergency came out, and totally gave up on them with Manhunt. To me, they are lacking talent and are trying to replace it with guts and sensationalism... taking the easy way eh?
As a gamer I don't want to see censorship, but as someone who likes quality games... I don't like seeing crap either.
If a gamer likes this game, I will support them. If my opinion is asked, Rockstar need to realize the 80's are over and glam/shock rock with the wigs, makeup and prettybois are not needed. Just quality, please.
Save the shock crap and just make great games... if you can.
I double dare you...
Wonderflex @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
"When kids get a certain age and start hanging out at friends huses, it becomes even more difficult to track what they are doing, watching or getting into."
Not to pick on you directly, but as hard as it is to monitor children away from home it still is the job as a parent to be fully aware of what goes on in a child's life outside of the home. Getting to personally know a child's friends' parents is an action that must be taken. If somebody doesn't like their children playing the game then they need to make sure the houses their children go to one where they won't be playing the game. I know that many parents out there don't like their children being around handguns at all and will make sure the houses they go to have the guns either out of the home, or locked away in a child-proof area. If parents are willing to do this for their child's physical life, and belive that games are an endangerment to their moral life then they need to take the same precausionary measures. The industry does have a responsibility to the parents in the way of ratings, but the true responsibility has to lie in the hands of the parents.
Gavin @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
I guess they just can't get enough peaceohol.
Morgon @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
#21 - You're right, beating someone with a stapler would not be funny.
..... unless it was a red Swingline stapler. Then it'sj ust f'ing hilarious.
People need to get a grip on their own reality before they try to alter the realities of others.
Oolon Coluphid @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Hey get Ringo out of that pic! He might not want to be associated with these freaks.
Oolon Coluphid @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
It doesn't matter how this videogame will affect kids because it's going to be rated M. Case closed. That's all that should need to be said to these groups. But noooooooo! They use the "Think of the Children" mantra as an excuse to control what grown men and women can do also.
Jim Daschle @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
"I started losing interest with R* when State of Emergency came out, and totally gave up on them with Manhunt. To me, they are lacking talent and are trying to replace it with guts and sensationalism... taking the easy way eh?"
THANK you. I'm sick of Rockstar being the big "OMG WE BEZ TEH EVUL" group, trying to use shock to sell games, like a bad TV show or movie.
chill @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
# Volunteer to sell its violent and sexually explicit games in adult video stores only.
This is what they truly want! The start of slim to few M-rated games being made, by limiting where you can buy or rent M-rated titles. Next they'll be asking gaming mags not to preview or review M-rated games.
Ken Zon @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Stupid hippies. If you check out their website, you might conclude - as I did - that they should be called the Needless Flash Appoholics.
Captain Skull @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
I wanna go there and join them with signs that say things like:
"We suck"
"Whine-aholics"
"Nothing better to do"
"We control what you do"
Rick @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
I think the fact that this group is based in D.C. has a lot to do with their anti-"Bully" campaign. In the Greater D.C. area, a lot of attention is being paid to youth violence. A number of young people have be killed this year, sometimes right outside their schools. There's even a sort-of neighborhood militia that's has sprung up in one area because some residents have lost faith in the police. Of course I think this group is barking up the wrong tree, but their ire is understandable.
Sometimes parents/guardians who try hard and mean well can do more harm than good by having a knee jerk reaction to something in the media. I'm not saying parents are wrong to be upset at what their kids are exposed to, but they need to be more levelheaded. Grand sweeping changes are not necessary here. The ESRB does a good and efficient job of letting parent knows what's in a game, and I think most retailers make an effort to educate unwitting parents looking for a nice gift. This is not a broken system.
As for "Bully", I say let the Peacoholics campaign against it. This is America, people can express their opinions freely. My only wish is that they don't stoop to using underhanded means of getting support. Jack Thompson often "mistates" the extremity of certain adult content, and he uses emotionally charged language to rile people up. Sure he may get support, but it's due to the fiction that he creates. To me that's un-American.
ryan @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
hey its a pr stunt, guys!
GuyManDude @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
Something tells me they were "Bully"ed in school.
LaughingTarget @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
It should be known that any group that uses the "Hey hey, ho ho" chant lacks creativity and thus lacks the ability to actually research what they are prostesting.
WizarDru @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
You know, this is a stupid PR stunt, but there's a point in there; this is just Rockstar trying to make GTA in a more immature setting and style.
Rockstar can spin tales about 'fighting back against the bullies', but their marketing at E3 painted an entirely different picture, and it looks like they're back-pedalling. The main character isn't some innocent newb dropped in a hostile environment; previous press painted him as a ten-time loser who'd been booted out of every other academy his unloving alcoholic mother had dumped him in...and this was his last chance prior to military academy. I have no doubt he comes up against bullies and oppresive senior snob students. But I can't help but notice that his head is shaved bald, his shirt is untucked and in some screenshots he's slamming some kids head down into a dirty toilet.
I'm not worried about my kids seeing this game, because I'll make sure they don't. I don't want Rockstar to be stopped from making the game, either.
I just think it looks like Bollocks. Rockstar is still feeling like a one-hit wonder to me.
OtakuCODE @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
ill trooper: You're the only one putting forward ideas worth dealing with here. You are right. A kid often plays a violent game or watches a violent movie and gets excited. It does not cause them to become violent, exactly, but it gets their juices flowing. It also happens with completely nonviolent puzzle games. The thing that stimulates them is not the violence, not the blood, and not the gore. It's the GAME component. It's the pitting of their reflexes against the machine and the AI. Can they hit the right button sequence at the right time, can they make the right choices quickly enough, it requires adrenaline to kick the brain into a higher gear. And that adrenaline does not go away immediately after the console is turned off. I've played with several children and seen them play different types of games. They get just as worked up simply freely roaming around on a motocross game and trying to line up tricks as they do playing Halo. Children are naturally high energy and it doesn't take much to kick them up a notch to quite hyperactive. That's the nature of childhood, being playful and rambunctious.
Ben: No, the kids who get picked on do not "often" choose violent methods of conflict resolution. In fact, it is exceedingly and astonishingly rare that they do so. "Often" they choose to abuse themselves, kill themselves, or simply suffer through long-lasting depressions. Rarely do bullied children believe themselves capable of standing up for themselves, that is why they are bullied. If a game came out that let a bullied nerd take revenge on groups of bullies in a school, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Not because I believe kids should go shootup their schools, of course not, bullies are worthless subhuman scum and don't deserve the prison sentence you'd have to pay to do it. But it's a GAME so things could be played out however you wish.
I graduated high school right before increased rules and restrictions on students caused Columbine. A high school friend of mine and I designed a board game based on school shooting. You had to go into the school and shoot the place up. You got extra points if you shot popular kids, even more points if you managed to do it in front of a window. Negative points for shooting nerds. It was a commentary on the twisted way our school system works. Jocks and rich kids are coddled and favored by teachers, parents, and the media. The nerds and punks and weirdos are universally hated. In the coverage of Columbine, you heard about whether the victims were pretty, or you heard about their promising football scholarships. If it was just a kid who really dug punk music and wore a crazy hairstyle, you'd never hear about them. Nobody wanted to blame the two shooters at Columbine, but they are the ones responsible. Whatever was dealt to them, there were other means to deal with it. It wasn't their parents fault, it wasn't the bullies that beat them up, it wasn't anyones fault but theirs. They killed themselves, so everyone was left around feeling impotent and unable to blame anyone. Too bad for them. They can't twist the concept of justice just because it's convenient.
Look at how many copies GTA sold. Look at the plummeting crime rates in our country. Look at the actual numbers, not what you "feel" is happening by watching the news. Child abductions are down. School shootings are way down. School violence is down. Murder is down. Rape is down. Something like GTA would HAVE to have a statistical impact if it had a negative effect. Vice City was the fastest selling product in history. Not videogame but PRODUCT. In ANY market. Of ANY kind. It's in the Guiness World Records book now. Tell me how, if violent videogames have such an effect on the populace, the crime rates keep falling. Explain it.
Sheikh Yerbouti @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
The Peacaholics demands are downright ridiculous.
If they protested against Israeli settlement in the Gaza strip, they would demand all Jews report to Auschwitz. Civil Rights? Only American Indians would be landowners. Blacks receive reparations, and whites do all the work.
Bottom-line: they're looking for something to protest for the sake of protest.
Necros Nodtveidt @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
The truly scary thing is that groups like these often have huge amounts of resources and many ways of exerting their influence in government because our government works the same way they do...they'll do anything they can to push their agenda by telling the frightened American public what it wants to hear...that someone is doing something wrong and should be punished for it. It's nothing more than corrupt people pointing the same crooked finger over and over again and it's disgusting...and the most ironic part is that these people are among the most immoral people in our country and they're screaming about immorality!
As a video game designer myself, there is no way in hell I can be held responsible for the actions of children or their parents, and no one should think Rockstar is either. The issue is simple: education. Parents need to be educated. You know...the game ratings exist for a damn good reason! I believe that most of them think that they're above education...I mean after all, they're the "grown ups". Only those of us who grew up with home video games seem to understand the fact that the industry has matured with us...we were there at its inception and we have seen the rise (mid 70s), the fall (early 80s), and the rebirth (mid 80s) of the industry. It's no surprise that those who did not participate in this are among those trying to fight it.
Video games aren't just for kids anymore. This is a new era. These people seriously need to get with the times and above all else...GROW UP.
Miguel @ Dec 18th 2005 9:59PM
How the heck commies or hippies have something to do with these ridiculous people (peaceaholics). Commies are religionless, these guys are much dangerous - as the previous changed their minds - because they have friends in high places.
Be aware - a sort of western-talibans are arrising.